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To Jewish believers that recognize Jesus as the Messiah?


what opened your mind and heart? what was the moment of revelation?

If you want to get honest answers to what inspired a Jew to abandon Judaism and convert to Christianity you are going to have to rephrase this and ask it in language that makes sense.

To Jewish believers that recognize Jesus as the Messiah? Does not make sense. Jewish believers do not do that. Jewish believers know the world around us is clear enough evidence the messianic age has not arrived.
Jewish believers believe in God through Judaism. The Jewish Bible (Tanakh) concept of messiah and the nature of God, and so very many other things very, very different than those same named things in the Christian doctrine of the New Testament. If a Jewish believer came to “recognize Jesus” as the messiah, he or she would not be a “Jewish believer” but a Christian believer.

There are several ways you could rephrase that question to get honest answers, and there are honest Jewish converts to Christianity who honestly call themselves Christian. I know more than one. I’m related to them.

Those I know who became Christian did so for several reasons..the main one, they knew very little about Judaism and either felt isolated from Jewish community or felt rejected..and then found a church that not only embraced them but made them feel like superstars because they were born Jews! But thank God they’re honest and call themselves Christian.

You could ask, “To converts to Christianity from Judaism, what opened your mind and heart and what was the moment of revelation?”
( although even this implies they were closed minded before)
“To Christians born to Jewish families, what etc…

“To Hebrew Christians ( that’s at least an honest term and the former name of the Messianic Jewish Alliance who also changed tactics when they saw the success of the J4J with getting donations from sponsoring churches)

The Davidic Messiah concept in the Tanakh has absolutely nothing to do with atonement for sin and the notion that God becomes a man is also incompatible.

Since the time of the receiving of the Torah, adoption of a foreign belief makes on apostate to the Torah. Even King Solomon was in a state of apostacy for a time, when he repented and returned it became evident in the latter chapters of his work Ecclesiastes.

It was Jews who were already apostate to Judaism and following the Romanized and Hellenist philosphies and beliefs who created the replacement theology of Christianity.

Less than 10% of the Jews for Jesus movement members have any ancestral tie to Jewish heritage. How can a group comprised of more than 90% Gentiles following a Hebraicised form of Christian doctrine (see their own statements of belief) be recognized to speak for Judaism? The “Jews for Jesus” movement is still the American Board of Missions to the Jews of the Southern Baptist Convention in action, only the name and tactics changed.

Your last additional detail even gives a better way to ask! You could simply ask..”What makes a Jew embrace belief in Christ?” But please recognize that when a Jew embraces a belief that violates the eternal covenant and places them outside of it in apostacy, their new religion is no longer “Jewish” because a Jew adopted it.

Jewish law alone, the Torah , the eternal covenant God gave and Israel received..define Jewish identity. Please respect that. I respect your right and the right of any human alive to worship whomever or whatever you wish. Please respect the right of the Jewish people. Your question is worded as if it indicates you believe that those of us who do not wish to abandon our faith and connection to God are closed minded, so I suggest you reconsider how you word things if you do not wish to sound disrespectful to others.

edit: Jewish conversion to Christianity often reveals lacking in the Jewish community and with Jewish education..and that is sometimes a hard fact for Jews to own up to.

EDIT: To clear up the discrepancy, a little enlightenment. Martin Meyer Rosen was born to Jewish parents. He did not live as an observant Jew and while he claims his father often attended an Orthodox synagogue he openly declared he did not practice any religion before becoming a Christian. He has identified himself openly at various times as a Christian and as a Jew. He became an ordained Baptist Minister. He then became active in the Southern Baptist Convention’s American Board of Missions to the Jews, took leadership and convinced them to change the name of that ministry to Jews for Jesus and then he adopted using the Yiddish name Moishe, a version of his Hebrew name, Moshe, to sound more Jewish to appeal to Jews. In August 1973, the ABMJ terminated Rosen’s position and the other eleven members of the mission also resigned from the Board in order to stay with JFJ. thus effectively replacing it with JFJ. Their primary focus at this point had to be on raising financial support, since ABMJ funds had been cut off. This support came mostly from Baptist churches, so JFJ toned down their youth culture image, presented more and more of a Jewish image. Their sole funding is from Christian support through churches, individual donations and a number of Bible schools. However, Rosen’s successor as the top “Jew” at JFJ, David Brickner, was recently exposed by author David Klinghoffer in the Jewish Journal as a “non-Jew.”

His bio on the JFJ Web site refers to him as “a fifth-generation Jewish believer in Jesus,” which means his family actually has been Christian for some time.
And Brickner’s mother was not Jewish, which means he isn’t either according to Jewish law.
By Jewish law if a mother isn’t Jewish her baby isn’t either. And Brickner’s maternal grandmother was not Jewish.

1) The first Jewish Christians thought of themselves as Jews, with a special understanding that Jesus was the messiah. They didn’t have a special name for themselves before they were ejected from the Temple and synagogues. The first recorded term they applied to themselves is, as you say, “followers of the Way”, a term which is too ambiguous to have been coined by outsiders. 2) It was the rejection by orthodox Judaism that caused them to turn to the Gentiles in order to survive. These new converts were called “Gentiles”, since the term means non-Jew, which they still were. 3) There were Gentiles who intellectually admired the Jewish faith but weren’t ready to adopt the more arduous cultural requirements, such as circumcision and the kosher laws. Jews called them “God-fearers”. Many of these likely became Christians. Some Jewish Christians insisted that Gentiles must become Jews and observe Torah in order to be proper Christians. Terms used to identify them included “Passagi” and “Circumcisi”. We call them Judaizers and you can read in Acts about the controversy they stirred up, resulting in a critical decision to break with Jewish tradition. Perhaps the longest surviving Jewish/Christian hybrid group was the Ebionites. Some were also called Nazarenes (not to be confused with the later Christian denomination). So it still came down to Jewish and Gentile Followers of the Way. It wasn’t as if they needed to put up signs or print stationery. The Jews understandably thought of them all as apostates and infidels.

The question is not meaningful as stated.

What you perhaps meant to ask was “Jewish apostates, what made you become convinced that your religion is inaccurate, and a gentile religion is true?”

In any event, Christians are not Jews, and Jews are not Christians.

And please save your missionizing for a different arena.

“Moishe” Rosen has an undignified past, to use the most polite term. His knowledge of the Jewish religion approaches zero.

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Here is a thought. Most of the Christians in Europe were first Pagans, so is the correct address for Christians Pagans for Jesus? It would have started about 32 CE and still be true today.

So if a non-Jew, joins Jews for Jesus, would not the proper name be Pagan Jews for Jesus? Or Jews for Pagan’s for Jesus. Not sure yet.

No Jew on earth worhips any deity other than ONE God, not two (God and Jesus) or three (God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit). Any one proclaiming to be Jewish who also believes in Jesus is NOT Jewish. A Jew who believes in Jesus would be just as impossible as a Christian who belives in the Hindu god Vishnu–it just ain’t gonna happen!

Both Jews4Jesus people and self-proclaimed “Messianic Jews”–blasphemous liars who twist and distort an beautiful 5,000+ year old religion into a monstrosity.

Every true Christian should condem them for their dishonesty, as do all real Jews.

answer: there are no Jews who recognize Jesus as the foretold Jewish Messiah. Any Jews that do are apostate Jews, no longer part of the religion or the community. They are Christians.

A belief in Jesus as a divine savior breaks the covenant with G-d that Jews have.

Non-Jews who believe in G-d have their own special covenant (Christians and Muslims) – that doesn’t mean they can believe in Mohammad as a divinely inspired prophet and be a Jew. That doesn’t mean they can believe in Jesus as a divine savior and be a Jew.

Christians don’t get to define who is a Jew and who isn’t. Jews don’t try and tell Christians who is qualified to be declared a Christian, extend the same courtesy.

# #

“Jews for Jesus” are fundamentalist Christians with the express intention of DECEIVING and LYING to Jews in order to trick them into converting. They are denounced by many good Christians and Christian organizations.

They are liars and admit it.

No such person, sorry. If a Jew believes Jesus is the messiah, they are no longer Jewish.

The same thing happens if a Christian recognizes that Jesus was not the messiah. They instantly become an ex-Christian.

“From the Jews for Jesus website . . . ”

. . . and some white supremacist groups say they aren’t racist.

Jews get to define who is and who isn’t Jewish. Not Christians, and not apostate Jews.

Maybe you should ask the southern baptists who funded the movement. The people who follow that gospel are not Jewish.

I am Jewish, and I have an open mind and an open heart. It was when my Catholic ex-husband ripped the mezuzah off my front doorpost that I had a revelation. I divorced him and made teshuvah. I thank Hashem every day for that revelation.

There is no such thing as a Jewish person who recognizes that Jesus is the messiah…anyone who says otherwise is a deceitful liar. A person who accepts Christ is a Christian. There is absolutely no place for Jesus in Judaism….it contradicts many of the core teaching of it.

“what opened your mind and heart?” How rude and condescending! But then again that’s the typical fundie attitude around here.

You mean XIANS.

Jews4Jesus: founded by an ordained BAPTIST minister. Members are XIANS. No link to Judaism.

Even other XIANS condemn them:

In the US, several journalists obtained a confidential briefing written by the founder of the largest Messianic group, ‘jews’ For Jesus:

In the document ‘What Evangelical Christians should know about Messianic “jews” , Martin Meyer, founder of ‘jews’ FOR JESUS: reveals:

‘We are an arm of the local **Church**. We are Evangelists. We are accountable to the Church. As we win and ***convert*** Jewish people, we urge them to take their place in a local Evangelical **Church**, or establish a congregation. Our duty is to aid the **Church** at large and to gather in the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.’

– from ‘Holy Terror’ by Conway and Seigelman

What Do Jewish And Xian Leaders Say?

Every Jewish leader, in every country, has publicly asked the Messianics to stop lying and claiming to be ‘jewish’ and to stop misrepresenting Judaism.

Xian, Jewish and Muslim leaders have united in condemning the Messianics:
At the 1997 Washington D.C. Interfaith Conference, Protestant, Roman-Catholic, Muslim and Jewish leaders ***all***
issued an official statement (published in “Interfaith Connector” Vol. 8, No. 2) stating:

“We condemn proselytizing efforts which involve deception. Such practices are common among Christian groups calling themselves ‘Hebrew Christianity’, ***’Messianic judaism’***, or ***’jews for Jesus’***.
“These groups specifically target Jews for conversion to Christianity, claiming that in accepting Jesus as the savior/messiah, a Jews ‘fulfills’ his/her faith.’

“By celebrating Jewish festivals, worshipping on the Jewish Shabbat, appropriating Jewish symbols, rituals and prayers in their Churches, and, sometimes, even calling their leaders ‘Rabbi’, they seek to win over, often by deception, many Jews.

“They target vulnerable groups – residents of hospitals and old aged homes, confused youth, college students away from home. These deceitful techniques are tantamount to coerced conversions and should be condemned.”

PURPLE:

No, it is NOT just ‘mainstream’ Jews who don’t worship Jesus. NO JEW ON EARTH worships ANY human.

Messianics were NOT Jews to START WITH.

————————————–…

edit to asker:

His real name is MARTIN MEYER.

He was an ordained BAPTIST MINISTER for 12 years before he started ‘jews4jesus’.

Baptists don’t get to REdefine Judaism.

A couple of things:
1. Jews who recognize Jesus as the Messiah are not practicing Judaism. There are messianic Jews out there who believe this, but mainstream Judaism does not recognize it as Judaism.
2. If a person is born Jewish, they are Jewish for life, no matter what they believe. A Jew who is practicing Christianity is still a Jew, they are just not practicing Judaism, which, for a Jew to do is looked down upon (If someone who is not Jewish follows Christianity it is considered okay though as long as they are good people and follow the 7 Noahide laws. Judaism is an action based religion and culture, not only Faith based).

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